british sovereigns
 

the prevailing view here seems to be stay clear of 1/2, 1/4 and 1/10 fractional bullion coin because of the big markup. but what do you folks feel about british sovereigns? it's nice to be able to go to the coin shop and get some gold without paying a high premium on the fractionals or laying out 700$. i don't believe i've even heard them mentioned

Re: british sovereigns
 

Like anything else here, there is not gonna be one answer- you will find people that say yea and others will say nay.

Personally, I like sovereigns, guilders, Duestch Marks, and french francs.

They are low premium incremental oz's, they are old, they are somewhat uniquie -

I like old things, I like gold things, what could be better than the cheapest form of old gold things?

IMHO, franklin sanders says it well about them -


From http://www.the-moneychanger.com/commandments.phtml

Why do you recommend older-issue, foreign fractional gold coins instead of modern issues or American Eagle fractionals?

Re: british sovereigns
 

I bought several sovereigns, and a few 20 franc French and Swiss coins from APMEX a few weeks ago. Everything I got was in uncirculated condition and the premium wasn't much, around $20/ounce above spot at the time. I just checked APMEX and sovereigns are selling for a whole $14/oz premium. Good grief, that's about what you pay for Kugerrands, cheap gold.

They, and the other older European fractionals, are good looking coins that go for almost no premium. I'd say buy a ton of them.

Usually I've got pictures of everything I have but I haven't gotten around to these yet. The only picture I have is a 1896 French 20 franc "Lucky Angel" that I turned into a necklass for my wife.

Re: british sovereigns
 

Depends on what country/geographical area you live in. In the US its been my experience that Sovereigns are a bit more liquid that other old world coins. The only drawback to them as well as all the other coins is that they contain uneven amounts of gold vs. even 1/25, 1/20, 1/10, 1/4 & 1/2. The upside is that they are readily recognized and accepted, contain (as you report) small amounts of Au, and trade close to spot.

IMO opinion in their category they can't be beat...except by perhaps fractional Kruggerands, but these are few and far between and when found most always trade at a higher premium.

And because diversification is important, don't just ignore the fracts. Eagles and Maples. Their liquidity, country of origin, and small gold content could be a real asset. Too, if you believe the price of gold is going to increase over the next 10-20 years, what difference will the premium you pay now make?

Re: british sovereigns
 

thanks for your input. think i'll take it easy and just go the sovereign route until a big gold correction happens, if it ever does again

Re: british sovereigns
 

I bagged a 1/4 oz commemorative gold coin off ebay that was only a wee markup over spot incl s/h.

Opportunities abound.

Re: british sovereigns
 

You mean a big enough correction that one oz gold coins are going for "affordable" prices? Another way of saying that is you will wait until fiat dollars are worth a lot more in terms of gold. Please don't hold your breath but, in the meantime, accumulate gold and silver in whatever amounts you can.

Re: british sovereigns
 

i have a good amount of 1 oz bullion coinage, but am unwilling to do giant puchases anymore. crossing my fingers on cashing out of my miners and sliding into bullion massively. timing, something i can't claim success in, will be critical. so many factors at play here.

Re: british sovereigns
 

They just became my second favorite bullion coin. Just nice coins that you can't go wrong with.

-1

Re: british sovereigns
 

i'll bite; what's your favorite?

Re: british sovereigns
 

Krugerrands.

-1

Re: british sovereigns
 

Krugerrands and Sovereigns are THE two most recognized and traded gold coins on the planet. You can sell or trade them anywhere in the world on a moments notice. Both are lowest premium in their class (one ounce and fractionals) and a good bet on either end. There is good reason that American wartime pilots carried Sovereigns in their "survival kits". FWIW

Re: british sovereigns
 

Weren't they typically sewn into their jacket lining or a pouch?

Re: british sovereigns
 

Nahh - they had a "pack"

from

http://www.amergold.com/vault/britis...reignkings.php


Our British Gold Sovereign �Kings� were minted in the early 1900s, during the fabled era when �the sun never set on the British Empire.� From Britain to India, Canada to South Africa and Australia, these timeless gold pieces were indeed the world�s �coin of the realm,� trusted everywhere for their pure gold content and secure backing by the English crown. As daily trading gold pieces and stores of monetary value, they were -- and still are -- unsurpassed. In fact, Sovereigns are so universally accepted that they were included in the survival kits of American pilots during World War II and Desert Storm.
<TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD align=left width=275>http://www.amergold.com/vault/Sovere...ivalKitBox.jpg</TD><TD align=right width=275>http://www.amergold.com/vault/Sovere...KitBoxInsi.jpg</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Here are pictures of an actual U.S. Naval Pilot survival kit from WWII. The outer case is a heavy, tire-like rubber that was sealed shut when issued. Approximate size is 3.5 in. by 4 in. Inside it contains three gold rings along with five gold coins: George V British sovereign (upper right), Victoria half-sovereign (upper center), Edward VII half-sovereign, French 20 franc Rooster (lower center), and French 20 franc Rooster (right center).

Re: british sovereigns
 

Didn't know that. Cool.

Re: british sovereigns
 

Three or so years ago, when I first started seriously following PM's, I was interested in getting some Sovereigns (man, were they cheap back then). I never bought any, but I think my next gold purchase will finally be some old world gold! I've been a bit of a collector since a kid, and I always like to diversify, especially into neat historical items.

Does anybody know the signifcance of the recurring .2354 oz weight coins, or any of the other odd weights? They don't even seem to convert into a nice even metric weight, so I'm curious why that is...

Re: british sovereigns
 

I regularly buy 1/2 and 1/4 maples as well as some European gold. I see no real problem with the markup. If I'm dollar cost averaging or want to split my weekly money between gold and silver, I'm definitely going to go fractional.

Re: british sovereigns
 

I've read the logic, but my recollection is somewhat hazy - perhaps someone will step in with better info - but I think somewhere around 1860s or so - the main european nations engaging in commerce at that time standardized the gold content of their coins along the lines of an agreement which had been reached to determine what the specific value should be for each nation- this was necessary for smooth conduct of business. You could then convert 20 francs, or gulders, or pounds or marks to a known quantity of gold. Prior to that time, other percentages were used, and these amounts varied.

Every nation in history has debased their currency. The Romans were notorious for it. The period of the agreements outlined above were probably the only extended period of time that this has not occurred. To the best of my knowledge, these agreements did not last past 1933. Don't know how the mark fit into this during the Weimar period.

Very interesting stuff.

Re: british sovereigns
 

Sovereigns are nice coins. Look for a low premium. Buy them until you have a nice tall stack. Krugs are my meat and potatos though. Maples are stunning, so buy some of those also. Don't forget to get some 1 oz silver rounds and some 10oz silver bars. Ok, ignore what I just told you and just concentrate on my first three sentences.

-PMan

Re: british sovereigns
 

I've found that most local coin dealers and pawn shops would rather "not" deal too much in Sovereigns or fractionals, and usually pass them along at close to spot, sometimes even below spot if they have several and just want to move them. "Not as popular" as the one-ouncers, but if/when gold reaches the $1K mark, you can bet there will be a scramble for the smaller gold coins. Then we will start to see the "nervous premium" applied..... :bear_cry:

Re: this weekend only
 

In my experience, the premiums on sovereigns and other foreign fractionals makes them not worth it.

I like gold that has the weight stamped on it, just in case you need to sell or trade it to someone who doesn't know much down the line.

I also like the 1, 1/2, 1/4, and 1/10 fractionals - they make it very easy to count, trade, calculate value on the fly, etc. I can trade 2 half ouncers for a full ouncer if I need to, for example. I sometimes do this with friends. It would be tough with sovereings.

I've also found deals on gold eagle fractionals - I even got some tenths for UNDER spot a couple times. And I've seen fractionals at coin shows for spot or a few bucks over per ounce. I can even find $5 or $10 Liberty head gold for a few bucks over spot.

All that being said, if I could get sovereigns for cheaper than Krands, I would. But I can get Krands for spot or $6 over, and I've never seen sovereigns for a better price than that. And my Krands are one full oz, with the weight stamped on them. If you can get them for under spot, tho, go for it, and let me know where! :cheers:

And yes, Krands are ugly as hell. The working man's gold.

Re: british sovereigns
 

I like sovereigns for lots of reasons.

1. They are lovely coins.
2. They have historical interest, and the different years and mints provide variety for the collector.
3. (Main reason). As the price of gold rises I believe the smaller coins will become more in demand.
4. They are instantly recognisable world-wide.
5. They are small enough to hide in a wallet or purse if you ever want to move around with them (see thread about moving PMs abroad).

They are def my favourite gold coin.

Re: british sovereigns
 

Hi CJul, I agree - sovereigns are in a class of their own! I wanted to ask, where is the thread about moving PMs abroad? Thanks,

Re: british sovereigns
 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: british sovereigns
 

I think sovereigns are in a class of their own. As good as krugerrands, perhaps better. True numismatic potential, collectibility and just plain bullion. I love them and they are a core part of my physical holdings. What I like about them is that I can justify owning them from a numismatic view. I can put them in coin books and I think this makes moving them easier as I am just another coin collector.

Re: british sovereigns
 

Be careful with the Austrian 100 Coronas. I thought they were the greatest coin ever because of the low markup and a next-to-nothing age premium on a BU coin dated 1915. I was sorta pissed when I found out that the coin had been minted recently and that it was backdated for "historical" accuracy. Oh well, I paid next to no premium or markup so I'm not that angry.

I also bought a Sovereign dated 1905, and although there was a premium, it wasn't much greater than the premium on a new 1/4 ounce gold Eagle. I'm looking to buy more.

Re: british sovereigns
 

The only time that I paid more then $5 over spot was when I picked up the 7 mint set. That averaged out to $7.85 over spot per coin.

Shop around there are some good deals out there.

-1

Re: british sovereigns
 

Candy..

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/18caecfb.jpg

Re: british sovereigns
 

Hey Jello, that's a great photo ! Thanks for sharing.

Re: british sovereigns
 

Those French Angel coins are interesting ... what are the premiums or buy/sell spreads usually on those? Are they pretty common?

Re: british sovereigns
 

substantial number of sovs in my collection

Re: british sovereigns
 

Nice ....... I don't have any QV ones in mine ....

Was going to post some pics but can't find them ... watch this space ...

Re: british sovereigns
 

Sovereigns especially in MS condition(s) can be changed into NUMISMATICS via grading NGC/PCGS. :9536: :9536: :9536:

Pretty NICE coins and premiums are rather low. That's what I've been picking up lately in volume. :applause_ :applause_

Grabbed 40 at around $550 for each four - graded them for around $20 each on-line fill out with NGC - and got 9 MS64; 10 MS63 & one MS62. Just sent in the rest and they were received withing two days in FL from CA. They will ship back to me in three working days. :9536: :9536: :9536:


That sure beats PCGS (although they are a tad higher rated). Last time I used PCGS they took 9 weeks with 11 Saints - and graded them lousy at that. Although 60% of my coins are in PCGS slabs - I really like NGCs service a lot better. PCGS just gave me the fickle finger of fate when I asked for my extra coupons for their lousy service, too! :banghead:

Re: british sovereigns
 

Damn you for taking these coins off of the market permanently :grin: . I never buy numismatics because I have the nasty habit of touching and holding my coins and showing them off to various friends, most who have never held a gold or silver coin in their life.

I thought of buying a nice Morgan silver dollar but more and more of the BU ones are being graded. I would have to break the damn holder and that might damage my coin. Is it easy to get your coin out of the holders? I've never held an encapsulated coin so I wouldn't know.

Re: british sovereigns
 

A smart hammer blow (smart meaning POWERFUL) might do the dirty REMOVAL deed but why?